The Stress Doc Letter
Cybernotes from the Online Psychohumorist
January 2000, No. 2, Sect. 2
Readers' Take (on) Prozac: Part II
DEAR DOC, THIS IS MY THIRD LETTER TO YOU ABOUT VARIOUS SUBJECTS AND YOU HAVE HELPED ME
SO MUCH. YOU ARE MY GROUP, MY ALANON MEETING AND MY OUTLET.
UNLESS I MISSED SOMETHING IN YOUR NEWSLETTER IT SEEMS TO ME IF PROZAC OR ZOLOFT[MINE]
WERE AROUND YEARS AGO THERE WOULD BE FEWER ALCOHOLICS. THEN THERE WOULD NOT BE THIS
MIXING. I FEEL MOST PEOPLE WHO STARTED TO DRINK, ESPECIALLY HEAVY ARE IN REALITY
DEPRESSED. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS, IF YOU FIND THE TIME? SHEILA
I definitely agree. Unfortunately, if someone is abusing alcohol and is addicted to
some degree, first the individual needs to withdraw from the alcohol. They have habituated
to a poison in the system. Once detoxed, and in alcohol treatment, then I would start the
antidepressant meds trial.
If not addicted to alcohol, then hopefully the meds could treat the depression for
which people are self-medicating through alcohol. But let's not think antidepressant meds
will automatically or alone cure a well-established pattern of drinking. But I also agree,
earlier appropriate treatment for depression will likely reduce later problem drinking.
But you raise an important point. Thanks much. And thanks for the kind words.
Mark, Beautifully done with lots of care. For those of us in 12 step programs, you
"Rule 13 for drunks, addicts, etc. Talk over any strategy involving meds with your
sponsor, and be sure your doctor knows about your alcoholism/addiction. Make sure the
doctor or therapist has read at least chapter 2 of the big book of AA. "
We could argue about whether AA or the like is a "station on the journey of
life," or a different way of living, but that would belie the intent of your
Best regards, David G
Dear David, Thanks so much for your very thoughtful and touching note. And I especially
appreciate the sensitive way you note a possible difference. I agree, it certainly can be
seen as a different (and richer) way of living.
Very thought -provoking. ABC Nightly News ran a cogent story tonight (1/6) re:
employers' rights to employees' personal computer time while on the job, and segued nicely
into the ease with which employers can access the data-bases from their paid-for insurance
companies w/ regard to (previously thought to be private medical info of their employees,
including anything authorized by that company: any/all prescribed meds and reasons for
them, psychiatric referrals + reasons, number of doctor/specialist visits, potentially
chronic conditions, etc., which might be of use to the employer to determine Hire / Fire
status or promotability of any employee. Is it any wonder that people hide from that
Big-Brotherism to keep the wolf from the door? I know that I personally will abstain from
seeking help from anyone who keeps records that might be used as an eventual weapon to
destroy me /mine. It is rapidly becoming a marketplace where only those who can afford to
pay cash upfront will be able to buy and keep their own records, and the older we get the
thicker the dossier. Michelle
I thought these were superb articles. Having been in and out of recurrent major
depression for the last five years, and having read very extensively on the subject, I
thought your articles caught all of the salient issues. Your personal experience has
obviously added to your total sensitivity to the many issues involved.
I'm currently on 3 antidepressants! Pamelor (the old tricyclic), Zoloft and Celexa,
along with a small dose of Klonopin. The doc that told you Zoloft and Prozac are alike was
INCORRECT. In my case, Prozac worked superbly on the depression - more effectively than
anything else (and I've tried almost all of them). However, it gives me a very painful
arthralgia of the joints! Wierd. Every time I would take a step, I would get horrible
shooting pains in my ankles, knees, etc. Wish it wasn't so. It was so effective on the
I ended up on this concoction after extensive trials, under supervision of a
psychiatrist. It really is trial and error. And the meds were never a total solution for
me. I've had too many situational factors playing a partial role.
As a former medical group business manager, I can tell you that managed care would like
to eliminate psychiatry altogether. As you know, psychologists have been seeking
prescription rights (which is WRONG). I think MC wants the family doctor to medicate and
to use counselors as an adjunct and eliminate the psychs.
Also, you're right on about "come back in a month, or three months." My own
physician is excellent and never did this, but I have seen severely depressed people be
given medication and told to return at some distant date. In one case the patient lived
alone. This invites a fatal outcome, if you ask me. The meds will not work for weeks, and
it's just denying any care at all for the person in the meantime.
I'm glad you mentioned that depression can be a fatal illness. All doctors should know
this. However, I have found a very real bias among general physicians against shrinks. To
put it frankly, they largely consider them to be quacks. I have heard these discussions
myself - I'm not just guessing here. What a sad situation. Medical professionals think
that if you can't "prove" an illness by a definitive lab test result, or an mri,
or some form of concrete evidence that it largely doesn't exist.
In many cases, general docs are as ignorant of mental disorders as the general public.
When I became depressed, the docs I worked for had me audited and then fired me. I had
worked for them for fifteen years. Nothing was found to be wrong in the audit - they just
don't want you around with a psych diagnosis. As I believe I've told you in the past, a
physician in the group and another manager also had to leave with major depression. They
never considered that the workplace they had created had a part in all that mess.
You are also right on about the patient's feelings about the illness - I couldn't
understand why I couldn't cope this time - after all, I had been able to adjust and cope
all my life. What had changed? I suspect that you're right - the body compensates somehow
for many years and then with age and wear/tear - the system breaks down somehow and
I am still somewhat troubled by taking medication. At one time I was taking twelve
psych drug pills a day. I feel pretty decent most of the time - but I am not
"Me" as I was before. I sense a blunting of emotion and a most striking loss of
the sense of urgency. Kind of a "I don't really care attitude." Hard to tell if
that's medication, or lingering depression. It's hard to define the changes on medication.
They are very subtle.
When I try to go off, I end up sobbing all the time. That could be withdrawal from the
drug, rather than depression. How complex and difficult to decipher.
Also, I work in great spurts of energy - don't sleep but every other day. Then I'm
comatose for a day. Yet I don't want to regulate this. Somehow I like it. When I get into
my work, I want to roll forever. It's a sense of, "I better take advantage of this
feeling before it's gone." (Maybe I'm bipolar after all?)
Enough of this prattle. I wanted to commend you for the accuracy, depth and breadth of
the issues you touched upon. Very sharp and very current and full recognition of current
financial and social issues as well.
I've been expecting deaths from the indiscriminate pushing of drugs over the Internet,
haven't you. It was a disaster waiting to happen - why was it not prohibited?!
Reprehensible - make a buck and never mind if you kill someone.
Isn't there a level on which you like all your own quirks? Sure, they get in the way
sometimes, but they make you who you are. I know I'm not fully willing to give up all of
mine. They're familiar - and they're MINE/ME. On the other hand, I don't want to cry night
and day either. Oh, boy! It's difficult.
Keep up the superb work! It will help many people!! T.
Re: Newsletter JAN 2000. No. 1, Sect. 2 I must be moderately depressed. (1) I get teed
off and at age 79 strain to keep up no matter what. (2) I get EXHAUSTED trying constantly
to understand this world with a mental IQ of zero. (3) I wildly enjoy my escapes to
eating, tv watching, and playing computer games. (4) I told my doctor to take his anti
depressants and stick them where the sun doesn't shine. (5) WOW!!!~ I KNOW that my edge is
gone. (6) I "treat" myself since I have a minor in clinical psychology. Who
wants a psychiatrist messing up your psche? (7) See item #6. (8) Slow sex drive. How about
no sex drive? (9) I am not moved to tears but I am concerned about my love for the
violence in WW II movies. (10) The miles have mounted. My back is gone. Every body joint
is arthritic - arteries are hardening - and I need to trade my "car" in on a new
one. (11) I am a real old dog. I simply fail to recognize the new tricks to learn. (12)
Nuts - I have wasted our time. I forgot that you were trying to assist me with information
related to Prozac, etc. - thus my memory is gone. MARK, you have written a fine
newsletter. I am just letting you know that I have read and appreciate the content. Thanks
for keeping me on your mailing list. Andy
(Thanks Andy. Your feisty attitude and capacity for absurdity, self-effacing (and
skewering) humor make you our poster boy to inspire us to....Practice Safe Stress!
A QUICK GUIDE TO ENTERING WEBMD LIVE EVENTS: by Jon Roig, Producer for Healtheon-WebMD,
1) Go to WebMD -- the URL is http://webmd.com. As far as browsers go, both Internet
Explorer and Netscape seem about equal, as long as you're using a reasonably recent
version. Mac users generally have the best luck with Internet Explorer 4.5 with OS 8.6or
2) If you have not yet done so, please create an account. This will take approximately
10 minutes, so if you're planning on joining an event, you might wish to set aside some
time to do so... * Click the "Login" button on the top navbar, just underneath
the WebMD Health logo. * Click the "Become A Member" button * Please fill in the
required fields: Nickname, Password, Email Address etc... * Click accept -- it'll let you
know if you've missed fields. * There's no need to create a member profile right now,
although you can if you like, of course.
3) Click the "WebMD LIVE Events" button -- it's on the left side, under
"Home and News" and above "Member to Member"
4) This will take you to a list of upcoming events. Choose the one you want to enter by
clicking on the title.
5) At the top of the announcement for the event, you should see an "Enter this
Event" button. Click it.
6) This will then take you into the chat. At the top of the screen, you'll see the
Terms and Conditions page. Please take a moment to read these, as they include information
about general use of our live events areas, our privacy statement, general info, etc...
*A quick note about privacy* Obviously, we don't sell individual user's data to anyone,
but we've heard stories of people getting spammed as a result of posting email addresses
to our message boards. In a general sense, if privacy is a major concern and you want to
post an email address on the boards, then get yourself an account with Hotmail or some
similar anonymous email service. We don't necessarily endorse any specific service, but
there are several good ones out there.
7) Click "Enter Chat" This will take you to our live event area, where the
event of your choice is taking taking place.
The upper portion of the screen is where the conversation itself will be taking place.
Feel free to ask you question at any time by typing "/ask" followed by your
query... EX. /ask What are some constructive ways that I can quit smoking?
Mark Gorkin, LICSW, known as "The Stress Doc," is the Internet's and America
Online's "Online Psychohumorist". An experienced psychotherapist, The Doc
is a nationally recognized speaker and training and OD consultant specializing in Stress,
Anger Management, Reorganizational Change, Team Building and HUMOR! His writings are
syndicated by iSyndicate.com and appear in a wide variety of online and offline forums and
publications, including AOL's Online Psych and Business Know How, WorkforceOnline, Mental
Health Net, Financial Services Journal Online, Paradigm Magazine and Counseling Today.
Check out his USA Today Online "Hotsite" Website -- www.stressdoc.com . For info
on his workshops or for his free newsletter, email firstname.lastname@example.org or call 202-232-8662.
Spring 2000, look for Practice Safe Stress with The Stress Doc, published by
(c) Mark Gorkin 2000 Shrink Rap Productions